Sam Beli

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Posts by Sam Beli

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  11

  "I'll be praying for you"

  by Sam Beli in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ill be praying for you.

  this thread is not about literally praying for someone (not trying to get into a discussion here about the existence of a god) so much as it is about the thought behind such words uttered by one person by another individual who the speaker knows is facing a difficult situation.

  here is what happened to me while i was still trying to hang on as a jw (though i knew full-well that there were many problems with the jw faith):.

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  Sam Beli

  Enough and Billygoat, I appreciate your thoughts and observations.

  Tina, thanks for the hugs. Life is more pleasant these days. I am glad that you have had the same experience on the outside.

  Warm regards,

  Sam Beli
• 
  11

  "I'll be praying for you"

  by Sam Beli in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ill be praying for you.

  this thread is not about literally praying for someone (not trying to get into a discussion here about the existence of a god) so much as it is about the thought behind such words uttered by one person by another individual who the speaker knows is facing a difficult situation.

  here is what happened to me while i was still trying to hang on as a jw (though i knew full-well that there were many problems with the jw faith):.

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  Sam Beli

  Thirdson, it sounds like you and I had similar experiences during our witnessdom days.

  Angel, I am so sorry to hear about your brother. Kind a crazy how the services could not be held in the KH (if you had wanted it) because he was not a JW, while at the same time they would not go to the services because they were not held I in the KH. Is that circular negativism?

  Anyway, I wish you well as you assemble your life post Watch Tower.

  Warm regards,

  Sam Beli
• 
  11

  "I'll be praying for you"

  by Sam Beli in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ill be praying for you.

  this thread is not about literally praying for someone (not trying to get into a discussion here about the existence of a god) so much as it is about the thought behind such words uttered by one person by another individual who the speaker knows is facing a difficult situation.

  here is what happened to me while i was still trying to hang on as a jw (though i knew full-well that there were many problems with the jw faith):.

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• 

  Sam Beli

  Hi Blondie and thanks for your kind words.

  Pat, I probably did the same thing during my JW days

  Stephanus, you said “…people who said "I'll be praying for you" usually meant they couldn't be bothered actually doing anything for you or spend time with you,…”

  I’m sure that in some cases your are correct, but I didn’t take most of their comments that way; after all, what could they really do for me? Only my doctors and the fine family that donated their precious loved-one’s organs could really do anything meaningful for me, beyond praying. I had several hospitalizations as I became more ill and many of these persons did spend time with me in my hospital room, even very busy professional people took time out of their busy schedules to visit me. They were sincere, IMHO.

  You also said: "Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount said that a prayer known to anyone but God and the person who prayed is it's own reward and is unlikely to be answered. Thanks a lot for telling me about it and wrecking the chances of it coming to pass!" It was kind of like when people who couldn't be bothered learning your name just called you "Brother": a spiritual sounding nothing.”

  I don’t take such a literal interpretation of Jesus’ words. The principle here, it seems to me, is to not go out of one’s way to make a public display of one’s gifts, be it a prayer or other gift. Remember these were not JWs and they did not call me “brother.” They did know my name and used it during their payers in their church; and some did come over to my house to help out, some brought food, and others ran errands for me and my family. I did not take a cynical view of their prayers because I believed that many were sincere. They told me about their prayers in the hope that it would give me comfort.

  Hope that clarifies things Stephanus.

  Warm regards,

  Sam Beli
• 
  11

  "I'll be praying for you"

  by Sam Beli in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ill be praying for you.

  this thread is not about literally praying for someone (not trying to get into a discussion here about the existence of a god) so much as it is about the thought behind such words uttered by one person by another individual who the speaker knows is facing a difficult situation.

  here is what happened to me while i was still trying to hang on as a jw (though i knew full-well that there were many problems with the jw faith):.

  1. 
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  Sam Beli

  “I’ll be praying for you”

  This thread is not about literally praying for someone (not trying to get into a discussion here about the existence of a God) so much as it is about the thought behind such words uttered by one person by another individual who the speaker knows is facing a difficult situation. Here is what happened to me while I was still trying to hang on as a JW (though I knew full-well that there were many problems with the JW faith):

  A few years ago I faced a life-threatening illness. It was a slowly progressive illness that led down-hill over a three year period. I became progressively weaker and paler. I missed many meetings at the local KH, but did manage to get to work most days (had to hang onto the job for the insurance benefits). My work output became less efficient and towards the end I was putting in shorter and shorter work days (my employer was very understanding).

  As death approached an organ transplant was the only hope held out to me. I was successfully transplanted and I am alive today only because of the transplant. But, I am not here to talk about transplants; I mention this only to let you know the seriousness of my situation.

  Not once did a JW tell me that he/she would be praying for me or that I would be remembered in their prayers. I did not think about or expect the JWs to say that they would pray for me, but I could not help but contrast the JW reactions to my situation with the responses of my co-workers. Dozens of “worldly’ co-workers said that they would be praying for me. Many ladies gave me big hugs and said that they would be praying for me. Some even said that they prayed for me in their church the previous Sunday! I was dumb-founded! The out-pouring of care and affection, much if it from near strangers, was so unlike anything I had experienced as a JW that I was struck by the contrast. All those years for hearing from Brooklyn about how loving “Jehovah’s Organization” was compared to the “world,” and yet here was evidence that plainly refuted that claim.

  The unconditional care and love shown by so many near strangers helped me to move further away for the “Organization” and has helped me now to be more comfortable among many “worldly” persons than with almost any JW.

  Warm regards,

  Sam Beli
• 
  37

  Feeling So Alone

  by troubled in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have to post tonight.

  i'm feeling so alone.

  stopped here at the library to post this, on my way to the book study.

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  Sam Beli

  Hi Troubled,

  Let me add one more voice to those who have already said that you are not alone. We do not say that to gain sympathy for ourselves, but because there is often comfort in knowing that you are not alone. Indeed, you are not alone. Many of us have gone through exactly what you are now experiencing. Does knowing that help? I certainly hope so.

  The Internet may be your best friend, in that you can “talk” with others like us who do know what you are going through. What brought us here? I don’t know what brings you here, maybe just a gut feeling that something is not right. Or perhaps, like me, it was the realization as I faced death, that the WTS's positions on blood defied reason, scripture and was medically indefensible. For others it was the deception about the WTS history; for others it has been the failings in connection with dates set by the Society.

  What is creating doubts in your mind (I have not read previous posts by you)? Listen to that inner voice, it may be trying to tell you something important.

  Warmest regards,

  Sam Beli

  PS I’ll be praying for you
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  31

  Any Buckeye's Here

  by larc in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those who don't know what a buckeye is, it is the state tree of ohio.

  it also grows in michigan, but most michiganders try to kill them off and burn them at ohio state - michigan football games when ohio state loses.

  the buckey tree produces brown fruit that look like a chestnut, except they are poisonous.

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  Sam Beli

  To All Buckeyes:

  Tina and Waiting remembered Silva, a CO in the late 60s, early 70s, before the assembly hall was available in London, Ohio (is it still used?). He also served in the Detroit area later and the last I heard he was in the New York area. Surely some of the Buckeyes and Wolverines here remember him.

  There was also a DO in Ohio in the mid 70s (I believe that this was after Silva was in the area) who was a pretty decent guy. I was battling my fellow elders at the time (one against five) in a matter that called in the CO and the DO. This DO actually displayed some compassion for my situation, but for the life of me I can’t remember his name. He visited the circuits in their assembly hall in London, Ohio in the mid to late 70s. Does any Buckeye remember him?

  Regards,

  Sam Beli
• 
  20

  JW Pedophile Goes To Jail

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  poor wt after spending all that money on the pedophile's defense.

  man convicted of sexual assault without church testimony.

  associated press newswires .

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  Sam Beli

  Thank you kismet for the clarification. That helps greatly.

  Sam Beli
• 
  20

  JW Pedophile Goes To Jail

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  poor wt after spending all that money on the pedophile's defense.

  man convicted of sexual assault without church testimony.

  associated press newswires .

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  Sam Beli

  Max, you said: "Anybody want to hazard a guess as to how much money this has cost the Watchtower Society to protect "ecclesiastical privilege"?

  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$"

  I don’t understand. Were the defense lawyers “society lawyers” or privately hired ones. If the latter I can understand the huge expense, but some have implied that these are from the Brooklyn stable of lawyers, the nearly “free” guys that work for room and board at the Columbia Heights or similar facility.

  Just trying to clear up the picture.

  Sam Beli
• 
  31

  Any Buckeye's Here

  by larc in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those who don't know what a buckeye is, it is the state tree of ohio.

  it also grows in michigan, but most michiganders try to kill them off and burn them at ohio state - michigan football games when ohio state loses.

  the buckey tree produces brown fruit that look like a chestnut, except they are poisonous.

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• 

  Sam Beli

  Go Blue!!!

  Hi larc,

  No I don't live in Michigan, but I did at one time. Still get back to a game once-in-awhile.

  Sam Beli
• 
  19

  Is it right to get people out of the org?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i gather that most on this forum would agree that jehovah's witneeses do not have the truth they cliam to have.. but to what degree do we inform friends and relatives who are still belivers of this.. for many (assuming they come to the same conclution) it would come as a relief , but for others could it do more harm than good?.

  for instance an elder in my hall recently died from cancer which he had suffered from for about a year.. what kept him going and happy through pain and suffering was the belief that he was in the true religion favored by god and would recieve a resurection.. imagine the heart break he would had suffered if people had convinced him that the society was a sham.. imagine others say like my parents who are in their 50's and have no pension who look forward to the future paradise.. would it be right for me to covince them that thier dreams for for future are all flawed.. i am still in my 20's and i'm not the type to get depreesed and all that, but i have to admit to being gutted when the truth dawned on me that all my hopeds and beliefs were likely wrong.. but can we be certain to such an absolute degree that all that witnesses belive is false?.

  do we really have the right to preach with coviction to others that they are wrong, just like we preached when we belived?.

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  Sam Beli

  Farkel said: “To encourage by silence the perpetration of the lie is to promote the lie”

  Sometimes one has to stay quiet as I will explain.

  Sleepy raises an important question that does not have a simple answer in every situation. For example, in the case of my young adult children, hell yes I have preached to them about the errors in teaching of the WTS. It is not easy for them since they have families of their own now who are “in-the-truth.” I made a special trip to the other side of the country to talk to them about these issues after I had made sure in my own mind that the “truth” was not the truth.

  In the case of my aged parents, it is another story. They retired a long time ago – too late to save properly for retirement, but they are getting by. My dad held out about the “this century” comments to the very end. When the news media referred to the end of the century at the start of 2000 he was quick to point out that the new century did not really begin till the year 2001 since there was no zero year. I think he really thought that the end would come as predicted before the start of 2001. He doesn’t say much now, but his zest for life is all tied up in the WTS and its “truth.”

  I have dribbled some hints to him, some real truth about the truth. He bristles and comes up with the usual excuses. Later he tells me to be very careful with my computer. He says that the apostate information is poison. So, I let it go. I never bring up the subject anymore. He goes to all of the meetings and zealously participates in all of the usual JW activities. He is a real “Society Man.” It would kill him to admit, even to himself privately, that it was not the truth. He has lead the way in the sacrifices that he and my mother have made. They have too much invested. Their personal spirit would be crushed to walk away now. So, I let it go. Trouble is, now every time I see him he wants to give me a little lecture about “not forsaking the Kingdom Hall.” Makes me want to hit him, but he is my dad, so I take it, smile, shake my head as if in agreement, and try to get out of there as soon as possible.

  Sometimes I just have to keep my mouth shut (wish I’d never opened it to my dad, I’ll pay for that the rest of his life).

  Regards,

  Sam Beli